Curse

Mordakai · Dec 08, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

under the current system, if you accept a trade and it is modified, your previous acceptance is cancelled and you have the choice of pressing accept again. in this case, it is your responsibility to look over the items once more before clicking "accept" again.

so this "locked" window prevents any further modification. however, scammers can still do the cancel-reopen trade trick.

the reason why i am not signing it is because i really don't see how it changes anything. when a scammer modifies a trade, you get asked if you want to "accept" again anyway. in the same sense, when a trade is modified and you don't check to see what was changed, you have no excuse for being scammed.

First, I've heard different accounts of this. Are you POSITIVE that "Accept" resets?

Second, there's always a chance (however minute) that someone could change an item right as you click "accept." (This happened to me.)

In this case, you have no recourse.

striderkaaru · Dec 08, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

First, I've heard different accounts of this. Are you POSITIVE that "Accept" resets?

Second, there's always a chance (however minute) that someone could change an item right as you click "accept." (This happened to me.)

In this case, you have no recourse.

yes, i'm quite certain the "accept" resets as many people have tried the bait and switch on me.

and you can't click "accept" (the button is greyed out), when a trade is being modified.

Mordakai · Dec 08, 2005, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

yes, i'm quite certain the "accept" resets as many people have tried the bait and switch on me.

and you can't click "accept" (the button is greyed out), when a trade is being modified.

If many people have tried this on you, wouldn't a "lock" screen reduce the number of scammers?

I admit, people will still try it. But with a Lock screen, the amount of people falling for these scams will drop tremendously. It's my belief that the majority of scammers will realize the Bait and Switch tactic is no longer as profitable.

As for your second point, I guess I was just unlucky, and happened to click accept right as he completed the switch.

But if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone...

Gargle Blaster · Dec 08, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

If many people have tried this on you, wouldn't a "lock" screen reduce the number of scammers?

it curently is a lock screen... why would there be any less number of people trying to scam you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I admit, people will still try it. But with a Lock screen, the amount of people falling for these scams will drop tremendously. It's my belief that the majority of scammers will realize the Bait and Switch tactic is no longer as profitable.

why would bait and switch not be profitable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

As for your second point, I guess I was just unlucky, and happened to click accept right as he completed the switch.

But if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone...

you are not a special snowflake... deal with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Come on, either people have responsibility for their actions, or they don't!

Don't tell me it's my job to make sure the trade is right (I agree, BTW), but then say the traders aren't responsible for what they are offering!

your point is moot as all people are responsible for their actions.

you also seem to be droping some of my ideas... like mistakes happen more than scams... or that scams will happen in any system. --your ideas ar not solving any problem they are just making it more difficult to play the game... the game design should try to get out of the way of the players not in it...

Damon Windwalker · Dec 08, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Caveat Emptor
Latin for "Let the buyer beware." The idea that buyers take responsibility for the condition of the items they purchase and should examine them before purchase. This is especially true for items that are not covered under a strict warranty. See, e.g. SEC v. Zandford (01-147).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/lexicon/caveat_emptor.htm

Mordakai · Dec 08, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

it curently is a lock screen... why would there be any less number of people trying to scam you?

It's NOT locked. You can change and item in the last minute, while someone his hitting accept, and scam them. This IS possible!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

why would bait and switch not be profitable?

Not AS profitable. Scammers rely on people falling for their scams. A "locked" screen would reduce the number of people falling for these scams. Thus, scamming would become less profitable (Time is money).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

you are not a special snowflake... deal with it.

I'll ignore this, as it does nothing to address my argument.
If anything, it just reinforces my point: I'm not the only one who is effected by scammers! We ALL are, whether we fall for them or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

your point is moot as all people are responsible for their actions.

you also seem to be droping some of my ideas... like mistakes happen more than scams... or that scams will happen in any system. --your ideas ar not solving any problem they are just making it more difficult to play the game... the game design should try to get out of the way of the players not in it...

OK, how does my idea make the game "more difficult."

If people spend a few seconds picking out the items they're going to trade, (which they should be doing anyway) the extra "locked" window will not slow down trades significantly.

Game designers have a responsibilty to make a game as fun to play as possible.

IMO, being scammed is NOT fun.

Mordakai · Dec 08, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Caveat Emptor
Latin for "Let the buyer beware." The idea that buyers take responsibility for the condition of the items they purchase and should examine them before purchase. This is especially true for items that are not covered under a strict warranty. See, e.g. SEC v. Zandford (01-147).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/lexicon/caveat_emptor.htm

If that's the kind of world you want to live in, fine.

I don't.

darkdragon99 · Dec 08, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster

it curently is a lock screen... why would there be any less number of people trying to scam you?

why would bait and switch not be profitable?

you are not a special snowflake... deal with it.

your point is moot as all people are responsible for their actions.

you also seem to be droping some of my ideas... like mistakes happen more than scams... or that scams will happen in any system. --your ideas ar not solving any problem they are just making it more difficult to play the game... the game design should try to get out of the way of the players not in it...

oh you mean like the freaking chest keys

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicey Shake

&no sign: should be checking anyway; and I quite like watching idiots scream 'omg someone scammed my _________' in all chat everytime some idiot gets duped, it's nice to remind him to his '__________ IS A SCAMMER' spam is also against the eula.

as far as i'm concerned is long as the all chat is being spammed on a constant basis by so called traders i don't care if it is against the eula i'll spamm what ever the hell i want

and finaly if you don't want scammed don't trade with other ppl simple as that

Medion · Dec 08, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

if you dont like it at least come up with a good reason to not implement it.

Because I would like Anet to spend their time on more things then making sure you are not scammed.
I mean if the choice is:

balancing / make sure I can't be scammed

I would surely chose balancing.

being scammed is only because you don't check the items you buy. And I have never been scammed to be honest, it's not like 10% of the GW people are scammers.

You say you don't want to check every time he changes his offer? Sorry but I think then it is your mistake when you are scammed. (not saying that scamming is good)

And if, as i hear in this thread, people keep switching their offers more often, doesn't something pop-up into your head that it might be a scam?
One switch can happen, two switches, although rarely, happen but not if it's like 4 times.

Or is it that this problem only occurs in America/Korea? Cause I haven't met any scammer in Europe so far.

xxhell · Dec 08, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

i dont evan consider bait and switch scaming(but i still dont do it) anyone dumb enough to fall for it should be scammed.. im not flaming your thread im just saying instead of having some extra step why dont you just worry about yourself and ill worry about myself.. of course the bait and switch in diablo 2 is what got me to scamming in that game.. i ended up hacking acounts.. bait and switching.. every scam in diablo 2 i knew i made so much *real* money off it.. all because someone scamed me for the first soj i found.. and i wanted it back but realy i got it back times 10k lol..most scammers start scamming because they got scammed its a on going circle
/not signed

capblueberry · Dec 08, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I have a nice little method i use to make sure i dont get scammed, its quite simple, pay attention to wth ur doing

Mordakai · Dec 08, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblueberry

I have a nice little method i use to make sure i dont get scammed, its quite simple, pay attention to wth ur doing

I was. It would not have stopped this scam (I was a victim of bad timing).

Javinator · Dec 08, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Really, unless you are one of these bait and switchers, I don't understand why you'd be so adamantly against this one extra locked screen just to make sure that everything is as it should be. Having to constantly recheck that you're getting the right item, although your responsibility, is not the point of trading.

Trading wasn't made as a test to get people scammed since they're not paying attention, so why are so many people fighting this one extra screen where the items are locked? Personally, I think these bait and switchers should be forced to put as much time into the game as the rest of us to make their money and, unless you're REALLY stupid (I mean like beyond dumb), there would be absolutely no more scamming.

Someone said that this would not stop bait and switchers since they'd merely click decline and try it on someone else, but they'd probably give up as the bait and switch would not work 99.9% of the time and the scam would become a thing of the past.

/signed

Javinator

actionjack · Dec 08, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

why not
but I would just wait for the Auction house...

Damon Windwalker · Dec 08, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

If that's the kind of world you want to live in, fine.

I don't.

Yes, it is. I'm a big fan of personal responsibility.

Carinae · Dec 08, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

under the current system, if you accept a trade and it is modified, your previous acceptance is cancelled and you have the choice of pressing accept again. in this case, it is your responsibility to look over the items once more before clicking "accept" again.

Everything hangs on this. If 'Accept' is behaving as it should, scamming is going to be minimized. But that is the 64,000 platinum question now isn't it?

If 'Accept' is not being cleared out on a modify, then we have a HUGE security issue! If it is, then I agree that a mouseover before accepting is expected behavior.

But it was my understanding that Accept was NOT being cleared. And that's very bad.

I didn't have time to check the trade screens last night, I got sidetracked by naked necros.

Damon Windwalker · Dec 08, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Hmmm, wonder why not signed? (coughcoughscammercoughcough)

Ahhh yes...let's summarize this whole scenario:

1. Get scammed because you aren't paying attention.
2. Start a campaign spamming this into every thread you can imagine.
3. Deny any personal responsibility.
4. Call anyone who disagrees with you a scammer.

Xenrath · Dec 08, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Everything hangs on this. If 'Accept' is behaving as it should, scamming is going to be minimized. But that is the 64,000 platinum question now isn't it?

If 'Accept' is not being cleared out on a modify, then we have a HUGE security issue! If it is, then I agree that a mouseover before accepting is expected behavior.

But it was my understanding that Accept was NOT being cleared. And that's very bad.

I didn't have time to check the trade screens last night, I got sidetracked by naked necros.

I just checked and it appears to be working correctly.

jammr_m32 · Dec 08, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

/not signed

If a person isn't paying close enough attention to realize an offer has been modified and accepts the new offer, I doubt they would be paying any more attention if there was another window. This wouldn't help at all, in my opinion. As it stands now, if an offer is modified you have to accept the new offer. If you've accepted an offer once and are prompted to accept again and foolishly click the accept button again, you're just asking to get scammed.

Damon Windwalker · Dec 08, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

I just checked and it appears to be working correctly.

Then that makes his argument moot, and proves that he wasn't paying attention - and trying to blame his lack of attention on someone else. As I suspected all along.